Li'l Muck Episode 32: Zachary Durand and David Fry

Hillary and Tina interview self-proclaimed UFO enthusiasts Zachary Durand and David Fry.

Zachary Durand is a south Florida native, an aide to the mayor of Fort Lauderdale, a volunteer for local democratic organizations, and an amateur astronomer.

His interest in the phenomenon has been lifelong but was significantly elevated in 2017 when the New York Times broke the story of the Pentagon's secret UFO program. He has spoken at a variety of institutions, including NYU and Pace University, and strives to lead by example as a face for a younger generation of public servants.

David Fry practices law as an Assistant Public Defender and is a former history teacher with absolutely zero formal training in engineering or physics. That said, much of his legal practice exists among more the nebulous concepts of perspective, bias, and intent -- those pesky human attributes that all so often creep into "knowledge" and obscure what would otherwise be universally observable as "truth." His passions have always been directed toward the unknown, wherever it may exist in time or space, with a particular focus as to how humans develop knowledge about ourselves and the universe in which we exist.

In defending his clients, David has learned to question the basis of what experts or lay individuals call fact by probing to question their basis of knowledge and processes for ascertaining a conclusion.

Hillary and Tina speak to Zachary and David about their interest in UFOs, the existence of extraterrestrials, and more.

60 Minutes’ May 16th UAP Story

Leslie Kean's “UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record”

National Press Club Press Conference, 2001

"The Phenomenon" Documentary by James Fox
"Out of the Blue" Documentary by James Fox

The New Yorker’s "How The Pentagon Started Taking UFOs Seriously"

The Debrief’s investigative series “Devices of Unknown Origin”
Part 1: Mystery In The Caribbean
Part 2: Interlopers over the Atlantic
Part 3: Mr. Secretary, We Don’t Know

AZ Gov. Fife Symington on witnessing the Phoenix Lights, March 13, 1997

UFOs and Defense: What Should We Prepare For? (“The COMETA Report,” French National Defense, 1999)

The Black Vault’s Archive on the phenomenon - John Greenewald Jr.

“The Day After Roswell” by Col Philip Corso

TRINITY: The Best-Kept Secret by Jacques F. Vallée and Paola Leopizzi Harris

“Hunt for the Skinwalker” by Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp

“Bob Lazar: Area 51 And Flying Saucers” by Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp

“Don’t Dismiss the Alien Hypothesis” by Christopher Mellon

April 25 2013, Rafael Hernandez Airport, Aguadilla, Puerto Rico

UFOTwitter:@LueElizondo, @ChrisKMellon, @NickPope, @RichDolan, Steven Greenstreet, LCDR Alex Anne Dietrich, @blackvaultcom, George Knapp, @RossCoulthart, @JeremyCorbell, Lt. Ryan Graves, Sean Cahill, @LtTimMcMillan, Cristina Gomez, @Debriefmedia, Somewhere in the Skies, Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies, Engaging The Phenomenon, @TheProjectUnity